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  1. #1
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    Class Not Race

    I was watching a video earlier today where a guy was talking about a recent debate black conservatives and black liberals had. He made a point near the end of the video that really made a lot of sense to me. He said people find more common ground with class rather than color/race.

    He was saying how lower class people tend not to get along with upper class people, middle class can't relate with either too. People typically change their minds politically according to what class they are in. Lower class tend to be more liberal, middle class is mixed, and upper class tends to be more conservative.

    I just thought it was interesting thinking back to the friends I had when I grew up and the people I didn't like. I was considered middle class and had just as many black friends as I did white (I am white). I think people overlook this, especially the media, and it causes division amongst people as a race issue when it really boils down to an income issue.

    What do you all think?

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    The left seem to have changed the class debate into a debate of identity groups.

    I listen often to Jorden Peterson when it comes to this topic and can also recommend his takes on that.
    He knows what he is talking about when you ask me.

    He states that there was a point where you couldnt call yourself a marxist anymore, due to the atrocities that have been commited by communists like Stalin.
    So the intellectuals whose still believed in communism began to use identity politics, to change the rich and poor game into a game of all sorts of groups.
    Which is why the neo- marxists or modern left isnt talking about class anymore.
    Because identity politics is mutch more effective.


    Spoiler


    Spoiler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    The left seem to have changed the class debate into a debate of identity groups.

    I listen often to Jorden Peterson when it comes to this topic and can also recommend his takes on that.
    He knows what he is talking about when you ask me.

    He states that there was a point where you couldnt call yourself a marxist anymore, due to the atrocities that have been commited by communists like Stalin.
    So the intellectuals whose still believed in communism began to use identity politics, to change the rich and poor game into a game of all sorts of groups.
    Which is why the neo- marxists or modern left isnt talking about class anymore.
    Because identity politics is mutch more effective.


    Spoiler


    Spoiler
    I like Jordan. He always pushes having moral boundaries for yourself so you can be held accountable and take responsibility over/in your life. I think the reason everything is about color and racism in the media are problems again is because people are looking to blame everyone else to feel better. People don't want to admit they are wrong with anything. They want to all feel important. I went to school with people like this in 5th grade. lol

    I just wish people would acknoledge the real problem here and that is the media manipulating people to think with a mob mentality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    I listen often to Jordan Peterson
    Quote Originally Posted by KorinKitty View Post
    I like Jordan.
    I think I mentioned this once before on this forum, but I met Jordan Peterson on a flight from Philadelphia to Toronto. Super nice & down to Earth dude in person. The way he acts in videos or on TV are no different from how he is sitting on a normal, mundane day.
    "Out of the ground, raze all greenery with flame! Fire2!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Starwind55 View Post
    It deals with a demon virus that transforms people into freaky looking fuckers

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    Quote Originally Posted by KorinKitty View Post
    I like Jordan. He always pushes having moral boundaries for yourself so you can be held accountable and take responsibility over/in your life.
    I listen also to his live advice from time to time.

    Quote Originally Posted by KorinKitty View Post
    I think the reason everything is about color and racism in the media are problems again is because people are looking to blame everyone else to feel better. People don't want to admit they are wrong with anything. They want to all feel important. I went to school with people like this in 5th grade. lol
    I think thats one of the factors that makes this ideology so attractive. But sadly this dont seem to be just about feelings or to feel better.
    It looks to be more about power and using feelings to gain it. Otherwise they wouldnt try to change laws, demand equality of outcome or undermine freedom of speech.

    A lot of people tend to whine when they face problems and try to blame everyone else for it.
    The founders of the modern left found a way to canalise this yammer and ungratefulness, with dustrictive intentions.
    They obligate people to complain, because in their estimation, it is the best and moral thing someone can do. In addition to that, it is much more comfortable to complain about injustice and wait until someone else takes care of everything, instead of improving yourself.
    What makes this i think also so appealing for many. Because it is easier and they get lesson it is the right thing to do.


    Quote Originally Posted by KorinKitty View Post
    I just wish people would acknoledge the real problem here and that is the media manipulating people to think with a mob mentality.
    We do dont we?
    I think thats a bit complicated, because that would shatter the believes and worldviews of many. People on the extrem left honestly believe what the media states since the majority of journalists became leftists also. This makes it also difficult for new journalists without a left background to survive.
    I guess there is also a large group of less political people, whose hold a blind trust in mainstream media for the reason it beeing mainstream.

    -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zemekis View Post
    I think I mentioned this once before on this forum, but I met Jordan Peterson on a flight from Philadelphia to Toronto. Super nice & down to Earth dude in person. The way he acts in videos or on TV are no different from how he is sitting on a normal, mundane day.
    Interesting.
    Did you had a talk with him?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    Interesting.
    Did you had a talk with him?
    Yeah, briefly. Maybe 2 minutes tops. He was working on his laptop and had some sort of business partner there as well so I didn't want to disturb him. I just first verified that is WAS him, I told him that I recognized his voice. Then I assured him that I wouldn't take much of his time. Being his target audience (early/mid 20's white male) I thought that my perspective may be somewhat valuable (although I'm sure he's had plenty of fan feedback. I really just wanted an excuse to talk to him). I told him that I enjoy and appreciate his work. Whether or not people agree with him, he is bringing up thought and opinions that invoke thought rather than just accepting change. He thanked me for saying hello, handshake, and asked my name. We exchanged a few more brief pleasantries then I excused myself and went back to my seat.

    Fun fact: when he rides on a plane he puts his feet up on the seat in front of him and sleeps like that, hugging his legs/knees.
    "Out of the ground, raze all greenery with flame! Fire2!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Starwind55 View Post
    It deals with a demon virus that transforms people into freaky looking fuckers

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    I never thought of it as weaponizing feelings to gain unfair advantages but it makes sense. I just don't understand how so many people fall for this. Those groups preach equality and love but HATE anyone who doesn't agree with them and thinks anyone with wealth isn't deserving of it. If it wasn't for people busting butt to get businesses off the ground, do you think these people would be able to enjoy their smart phones? Their fancy coffees? Their colorful clothing?

    They are brainwashed and I hope they wake up some day soon. Living a life of constantly being spiteful and hateful can't be healthy mentally, physically, or emotionally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KorinKitty View Post
    Those groups preach equality and love but HATE anyone who doesn't agree with them and thinks anyone with wealth isn't deserving of it. If it wasn't for people busting butt to get businesses off the ground, do you think these people would be able to enjoy their smart phones? Their fancy coffees? Their colorful clothing?
    Ironic isn't it? Just goes to show that the people who are the most outspoken about a given topic tend to be covering for something.
    "Out of the ground, raze all greenery with flame! Fire2!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Starwind55 View Post
    It deals with a demon virus that transforms people into freaky looking fuckers

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    Quote Originally Posted by KorinKitty View Post
    What do you all think?
    I think that while class, race and other things can certainly be used to form an identity, the best form of group identity ought to be a moral, cultural one.

    I, too, was born middle-class and have had friends of different race, though I tend to get along better with whites. What I see in traditional Western European culture is a moral foundation that can unify all races and classes. That is, the belief in an ultimate moral authority which transcends the world of Men. Namely, Logos. Reason.

    It begins with conscious thought. An awareness of oneself as an actor in this world, whose actions affect the world around him and those in it, even in seemingly small, miniscule ways. Therefore, it is necessary to adhere to an axiomatic framework, a Morality, by which the results of one's actions are, ideally, beneficial to oneself and the world.


    Reason aka Logos is perhaps the centerpiece of this framework, because its destination is Truth. Justice. Order in the universe. I believe that without Logos, our civilization would not exist. We have simply lost this knowledge, collectively speaking, through the vicissitudes of history. It may not be lost on an instinctual level among billions, but the Word itself is lacking, which in my view is the reason for disunity and other troubles we see today.


    If we can simply come together on the foundation of Logos, I think all these other aspects of our identity can take a comfortable backseat, and the world can be a much better place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemekis View Post
    Yeah, briefly. Maybe 2 minutes tops. He was working on his laptop and had some sort of business partner there as well so I didn't want to disturb him. I just first verified that is WAS him, I told him that I recognized his voice. Then I assured him that I wouldn't take much of his time. Being his target audience (early/mid 20's white male) I thought that my perspective may be somewhat valuable (although I'm sure he's had plenty of fan feedback. I really just wanted an excuse to talk to him). I told him that I enjoy and appreciate his work. Whether or not people agree with him, he is bringing up thought and opinions that invoke thought rather than just accepting change. He thanked me for saying hello, handshake, and asked my name. We exchanged a few more brief pleasantries then I excused myself and went back to my seat.
    I wouldnt have tried to speak to him. He is a very busy man after all and i wouldnt want to disturb him.
    Eventhough an interesting story. Thanks for sharing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zemekis View Post
    Fun fact: when he rides on a plane he puts his feet up on the seat in front of him and sleeps like that, hugging his legs/knees.
    A method against stress perhabs.

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